Curse

cantalus · Apr 30, 2011, 09:34 AM // 09:34

please stop putting these threads outside gladiators pls, pvers do not add to them in anyway that is useful and distort the thread to make it look like some pvpers are positve about flux etc

Artisan Archer · Apr 30, 2011, 09:46 AM // 09:46

The only thing worth shutting down atm is monks, which makes for pretty one dimensional play.
For balance to occur, midline defense has to be required and buffed, monks need to be nerfed and dervishes have to be nerfed. This way people will bring shutdown to get down midline defense and can actually kill monks without ridicilous amounts of damage (dervishes)

*lemming* · Apr 30, 2011, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

I'm curious as to this lack of hatred of the metagame that seems to emanate from people named lemming. Also, citing that those who hate the meta are the ones that are "low end" or "PvE" only stands to reiterate that the people who once loved GvG are now either driven out of Guild Wars entirely, or have left to PvE and those who have entered in the wake of those who were driven away from GvG are simply HA kids who have now found a new format of PvP that executes in basically the exact same way HA did about 3 years ago.

You completely misread my post. There's nothing wrong with disliking specific metagames - I think you'd be hard pressed to find more than a handful of players who actively enjoy the current metagame. What I find preposterous is the view that the metagame is some kind of exclusionist conspiracy designed by so-called elitists to make grouping difficult, and that any shakeups to the metagame are proletarian strikes against the status quo, a view that only the aforementioned demographics hold.

AndrewSX · Apr 30, 2011, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

Guild Wars used to be about disruption, shutdown, positioning, and adaptability. Now it's about positioning.... and going boom on your opponent's face. It is intellectually vapid.

Agree with this, as said, not that great change, but could give an idea of how will GW2 combat work for example....positioning.

urania · Apr 30, 2011, 11:40 PM // 23:40

its no longer about positioning either.

Dehumanizzer · May 01, 2011, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedukesd

So anet actually think that this will revive codex arena? Will eradicate rank discrimination in HA? Will fix the waiting times in FA/JQ? Will fix the sync teams in RA (stumme admited they can but provided some nonsense arguments why they don't do it cause well it's in his hand to bring back team arena)? Will revive pvp? Will make paragons viable in pvp? Will bring more people in AB to be actually able to play a game? Will this fix the report abuse issue (when you refuse to resign and the other team fails big time to kill you; and you don't have running skills on your bar)?

For me the answers to above questions are all NO. So this will not really improve pvp cause actually not the meta is causing the curent pvp problems.

(...).

Well, wanted to say something on Flux, and it seems that thedukesd pointed out the nonsense of this update.

distilledwill · May 03, 2011, 10:27 AM // 10:27

I'm just going to come out and say it, balance is boring. Change is exciting.

*lemming* · May 03, 2011, 10:32 AM // 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

I'm just going to come out and say it, balance is boring. Change is exciting.

Proper balance isn't boring.

Well, it might be boring if you don't understand what's going on, I suppose. I hate watching baseball.

AndrewSX · May 03, 2011, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Find 2 Dervs on 4 people is more boring than balance imo.

And yes, proper balance makes (ideally) fights harder to win, so more exciting.

Coast · May 03, 2011, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Wow man, balanced is so much more fun than anything else.
At least u used to have to think instead of nowadays blowing shit up w/o much thought into it. Also i hope they once revert everything to prophecies scale again, or add old skool versions of gvg/ha/ta so people can pick what they want to play.(but this will never happen since they are retarded/haven't got the funds or willpower)

distilledwill · May 03, 2011, 11:52 AM // 11:52

I totally see where you guys come from. And "proper" balance would be the best state for the game (whereby every single skill is viable, and each encounter is based upon player ability). But considering the 10 professions, numerous primary/secondary combinations, hundreds of skills, and thousands upon thousands of skill combinations - obtaining pure balance is impossible (especially considering the size of the live team).

In addition, the live team know they cannot release skill updates every month - they simply don't have the time. Whatever is OP once a skill update is released, will probably stay OP for quite a while before being nerfed again about 6 months down the line.

So, what can ANet do to keep the meta fresh if they cannot obtain pure balance? They can't keep sticking fingers in the holes in their bucket, as when you stem one stream another appears.

Embrace the chaos. Recognise that there will ALWAYS be OP crap out there, but introduce a structure to mix it up fairly regularly.

I know balance would be the ultimate goal, but with a team comprised of John Stumme, the intern who makes the coffee and Randy the office cat, I can't see it ever happening. In general, stuff is imbalanced because of a combination of skills working for and against each other. If the Flux changes how the game works for one month, adds in a new variable, at least it keeps the meta changing.

ItsJustMe · May 03, 2011, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Proper balance isn't boring.

Well, it might be boring if you don't understand what's going on, I suppose. I hate watching baseball.

And yet, baseball is balanced.

Sorry, couldn't resist, but I do agree with you lemming. Balance is far more exciting because there are more ways to play and counter with it then any other style.

-i

ItsJustMe · May 03, 2011, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

...lots of stuff...

Not every skill has to be balanced against the others to enjoy balance.

The meta wasn't too far out of whack before the derv update, really. There were far more viable builds before the blood necro and then the derv.

Shake ups are fine. This game needs them. The issue is when the shake up defines the meta instead of enhancing it. And when it does, ok, but the nerfs must come sooner and swifter.

-i

tealspikes · May 03, 2011, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Yay lets make splitting even more obsolete than it already was.

AndrewSX · May 03, 2011, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

Embrace the chaos. Recognise that there will ALWAYS be OP crap out there, but introduce a structure to mix it up fairly regularly.

Ok, this is sure, and isn't so strange afterall (people play to win -> people play most powerful things).
The whole point is the size of OPness.

Some months ago, playing PvP (take RA as example) you had to face always the same pattern of builds (or little variations of them). Normal, but this pool was quite large and vary, and the advantage wasn't so MASSIVE.

Now, all meele meta are Derv. And his power is really a LOT over the top of the other meta builds. Which in other words, means:

-1: High end PvP (GvG/HA, organized teams) will adapt (see the changes in Monk's bars), some faster, some slower (first days i've seen 6 PuG AoG Dervs+2 Monks beat an high ranked guild team. Now won't happen again), but will find his balance (and kick out wars and sins for dervs, lol).

-2: Low end PvP (RA, random composed teams, always as simple example) won't. Dervs are simply destroying any power balance there, regardless of player skill.

^This is important too. If the Derv could be powerful only in the right hands, i could even be happy....congrats to the player, it's rewarding and nice way to play.
Now is just focus on someone->active perma IAS+IMS+OP Avatar/Flashench-> spam skills till death.

bhavv · May 03, 2011, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by tealspikes

Yay lets make splitting even more obsolete than it already was.

Actually, lone wolf doesnt affect 'team splitting', it affecs running off on your own.

If GVG teams were simply to use two characters to split for the flag run, it wouldnt have any effect. However that would greatly reduce the capability of the main team, so a simple alternative to overcome to lone wolf could be for the runner to simply take a self armor boosting skill?

An old school classic Armor of Mist / Water Trident runner would be able to easily overcome the lone wolf thing. About to get ganked by a sin? Snare and trident spam him then run away.

*lemming* · May 03, 2011, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

So, what can ANet do to keep the meta fresh if they cannot obtain pure balance? They can't keep sticking fingers in the holes in their bucket, as when you stem one stream another appears.

The meta was fresh before the dervish update. Ten different builds saw play in the fifteen matches of the elimination rounds of the January monthly, with the winning build being a flexible balanced split.

Edit: I'm not trying to suggest that the metagame was perfect - flag pushing is still too strong a tactic. However, the dervish update and the first flux did nothing to address that core issue either.

urania · May 03, 2011, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

An old school classic Armor of Mist / Water Trident runner would be able to easily overcome the lone wolf thing. About to get ganked by a sin? Snare and trident spam him then run away.

you'd be dead before you'd actually be able to run away.

Skyy High · May 03, 2011, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

The meta was fresh before the dervish update. Ten different builds saw play in the fifteen matches of the elimination rounds of the January monthly, with the winning build being a flexible balanced split.

And yet I got reamed out whenever I suggested that the meta was not shitty...

I'm serious. No matter what the state of the game actually is, it will always be described as crappy and unbalanced on these forums....until something changes, and now it's unbalanced, and it used to be so perfect.

I agree that the meta has been thrown off-kilter from dervs, and that there was a distinct period of a month or two where it was probably the most balanced it had been for years.

*lemming* · May 03, 2011, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

And yet I got reamed out whenever I suggested that the meta was not shitty...

I'm serious. No matter what the state of the game actually is, it will always be described as crappy and unbalanced on these forums....until something changes, and now it's unbalanced, and it used to be so perfect.

To be fair, that wouldn't be the case if it were getting better, would it?